[cindahomaker]

Okay, I have now read a lot about the benefits and I see total validity in it's use.

However, I wondered have any of you started yourselves on such a course without getting exact levels taken with blood work or saliva testing? How did you determine how much you needed?
My husband and I are leaning toward doing the saliva testing via mail to labs.

I still wonder about the scenario when one may have miscarried as in had symptoms with 'some' bleeding and yet continues on the supplement. What is the worse that could happen other than delayed or lack of completion of bleeding. Would one be more likely to retain placenta/ or sac and then have to have a d and c?

I really hesitated going on the cream mid symptoms of miscarriage... not sure if I made the best choice but I won't over think it. Just want to make clear decisions for next time.

thanks in advance

[cindahomaker]

I did do some more reading and it seems that if I start the cream around two days after ovulation, conceive, and stay on the cream until at least 12 weeks into the pregnancy all should be well. :)

If I don't conceive then go off for a week then I wouldn't get an over build up if it took me 5 plus months of waiting for pregnancy.

It is really only potentially dangerous if you start after a pregnancy is miscarrying.

[bydesign]

If you don't mind sharing some of your research, what are the dangers of using progesterone after the start of a miscarriage? What are the dangers of too much progesterone in the system?

Personal question for you: Are you talking about a prescription type of progesterone that is taken orally or with injections?

Another one: Is the medical route more dangerous than the "natural" route? As in, diagnosing oneself as being low on progesterone based upon short luteal phases or repeat miscarriage and just using Vitex to help your body regulate its own progesterone production and then moving on to a progesterone cream available over-the-counter?

[cindahomaker]

bydesign, on 05 October 2009 - 10:18 PM, said:

If you don't mind sharing some of your research, what are the dangers of using progesterone after the start of a miscarriage? What are the dangers of too much progesterone in the system?

Personal question for you: Are you talking about a prescription type of progesterone that is taken orally or with injections?

Another one: Is the medical route more dangerous than the "natural" route? As in, diagnosing oneself as being low on progesterone based upon short luteal phases or repeat miscarriage and just using Vitex to help your body regulate its own progesterone production and then moving on to a progesterone cream available over-the-counter?

I am finding the articles written by a moderator on misdiagnosed miscarriage forums to be very helpful.

learning more about progesterone

From what I understand the concern is of retaining tissue with use of progesterone after trouble arises.
This is not to say that everyone should shy from the use mid a bleed... I have a friend that is going through a miscarriage she has decent ob care. They have used the progesterone after having bleeding off and on, had several ultra sounds, and been assured that the heart has stopped beating and the sac is being absorbed... so she went off the progesterone to allow the miscarriage to complete and it is still completing with bleeding etc... going on week 5 of the miscarriage. The gestation of the baby I believe would have been somewhere around 8 weeks by now.
But someone like me that has no local care provider willing to work with me... and my husband doesn't seem to be able to have a schedule that will help me keep an appointment especially if we had to travel a few hours away...
So I hesitated to go on the progesterone when I have had several days of heavy bleeding, and on again off again bleeds.

I really think I could have started the progesterone the first sign of bleeding ( because my initial bleeding though for days of flow was not showing tissue)... if I would have gone through the steps RIGHT away! But I didn't. I felt my thoughts were distracted by some family issues of how to better train the children...and provide better nutrition to tame the hyper times. Once again I am reminded that at least for some of us stress/ cortisol does mess with our progesterone production.Which doesn't help one with already low levels.
Then I was all caught up in researching soy because I knew I'd gotten some from a nutritional drink I started us on.
I was thinking it simply threw my hormones off... I wasn't specifically thinking pregnancy/miscarriage I was just thinking my hormones were still off as they usually are around this time postpartum.
The reality is the soy 'scare' was a good indicator that my body was trying to keep progesterone levels UP to protect a pregnancy!!!

Thinking out loud: I suppose a person could go on the natural cream and keep testing with home preg test every week for several weeks. I need to think that through. If the baby dies will the hcg increase if progesterone is being supplemented... probably NOT. It may however stay at a 'pregnant' level... so one would have to be getting blood work. So it seems we need the doctors.But of course we need them willing to work with us.

To be continued...

[Jewel]

I am currently using progesterone cream with this pregnancy. I also used it the cycle before I got pregnant! Then my next cycle was completely normal and my luteal phase was 16 days! I didn't even use it the cycle I conceived but the one before and it kicked my body into gear!

I used Happy PMS Cream which has nothing harmful in it and is good to use druing pregnancy! Then I switched to a a progesterone cream that has the exact same ingredients as the Happy PMS Cream but it's called Restored Balance. A local health food store carries it so it was easier for me to get it and not have to
pay shipping.

I use 1/4 tsp. 3 times a day.

I will start to wean off the cream around 12-13 weeks. I am now 10 weeks.
I also used it with my 9th child. And she is 4 now. With her I spotted every week until I was 13 1/2 weeks or so. So I used the cream to prevent a m/c. And it worked! :)

Oh-the cycle I used it with before the cycle I conceived I used it two days after ovulation until my cycle started. The cream will not stop your cycle from coming. It may prolong it but that's good so baby has time to implant well into the uterus. If you aren't pregnant it will come and then you stop using it until two days after you ovulate.

This post has been edited by Jewel: 06 October 2009 - 11:21 AM

[grac2u]

Natural Progesterone is safe in physiological doses (small doses your body would naturally produce). There is a huge difference between natural and artifiical progesterone...
"Provera" should never be used, it is synthetic and toxic associated with breast cancer, hearty attacks, stoke, osteoporrosis.
It actually casues a hormonal balance and does nothing to correct the problem.

Natural Progesterone Cream will aid in a vast array of other problems if you have low levels of progesterone: CFS, hypothyroidism, PMS, endometriosis, migraine, crohns, depression etc, etc.

Yes, it would be better to test levels to see where you are at, but I would not worry about using small, physiological doses for a short period of time.

Dr Brownstein and Dr Jefferies are both MD's in the field of natural hormone therapy and are a wealth of info.

Blessings.

[cindahomaker]

My mind is a bit crazy because I want to think objectively about info.-understand and make decisions but of course I want to take care of the baby and know he/ she is growing. Thus the on again off again thought so of progestrone therapy!

Update: My friend sent me almost two weeks supply of PROMETRIUM and I started with my first 200mg cap last night I already feel more pregnant urinating more etc... hoping that I can go from prometrium to the cream in a few weeks or possibly go to doc to get levels and U/S next week and get a script for more prometrium.
Prometrium if natural yam derived -oral.

I don't think the gap between last blood draw and treatment was too bad. fridays hcg levels of 356 increase of only 30 points in 48 hour ( yet not a decrease) was the small increase the end of the pregnancy? ...
If they would have been willing to prescribe prometrium I probably wouldn't have got the script until yesterday anyway.


The spotting had subsided friday anyway... BUT please don't hate me but I unthinkingly drank a glass of chocolate milk on sunday eve. (Nestle powders are now banded from the house for having soy -one of the few 'treats' we keep) got a headache and woke monday to a tissue full of bright red BUT it never increased or continued to do more than subside and spot to brown... with little to nothing to show on tissue yesterday/ today...

After one cap of prometrium I actually have little mucus even with all the peeing I am doing.

In retrospect I think the soy scare early this month showed me that the levels of progesterone were low... so that little bit of soy actually pushed the balance just enough to bleed.

Does anything make sense to you LOL?

ALL that to say I am in the gest. 4 week 6 days so I should be seeing bigger numbers next time I get to a doc. all the charts I see show a huge increase week five. SO if I go in at almost week 6 I should see something significant to go by...even if I am off on weeks I'd be 5 or 6 weeks along when the numbers should be in the several thousands.

[Jewel]

I hope your numbers show an increase and baby is fine! I know how scary it can be.

With my 9th baby I had a full cycle and spotting. I didn't even know I was pregnant until a friend suggested I test because the spotting was similar to what happened to her SIL. And of course it was a very positive test. Then I continued to spot until 13 1/2 weeks. I had an early unltrasound but becuz I had a cycle we weren't sure how far along I was. At the time of the ultrasound all they could see was a sac and told me they didn't know if the baby was viable or I was having a m/c. So from that point on I begin to just trust and pray. I started getting m/s and based on that and other factors I realized I was 6 weeks along. I continued to have bright red spotting until I was 13 1/2 weeks but she was a healthy baby girl and is now 4! :)

Anyway, just wanted to let you know I understand and sympathize with you!! :(
Much Love! :)

[cindahomaker]

Jewel, I really appreciate the encouragement!

I was able to get the ob appointment made for this coming monday...

I don't think I want to do an ultra sound just yet but would like to get numbers again. And wait for m/s around week 6 I usually feel very tired and nauseous even during the pregnancies that I never vomited much.

In the past, when I miscarried the first time, I know an ultra sound showed baby to be at 5 wks.( no heart beat) yet we were pretty sure it should be at 8 weeks. I had no intervention and did pass all fine naturally. It all happened in a short time and that was helpful on the emotional side

So my request to doc is to stay on progest therapy. WITH blood work every other week or something like that.
wait for the m/s...
So anyway if an ultra sound shows good signs in at 8-9 weeks I'll be reassured.

I sure hope this lady is easy to work with! This will be the first meeting. I don't know much about her other than she was willing to take some extra time with a friend of mine. She's nearly an hour away so it is a burden for my husband to travel like that and then go to work all day!

Prayer request!
So happens my husband was put on another odd shift because of a more legitimate reason than usual. A fella was in a serious car accident and needs much time to recover. Mike is trained in his job so is a perfect one ot take the man's place but I have to ask for some scheduling change from the scheduler... if he can't get back on second then I can't get to the doc.
We did order the restore balance cream so if there is a gap in time to see doc I can still be on progesterone. PTL
Oh, another praise my old ob records are being sent out to me now! and I've wanted to review them for sometime!

I guess that is a full update :flowers:

[cindahomaker]

I have been trying to search the net for a 'formula' of the amount of progesterone cream to equal the 200mg of prometrium and I can't find anything... that is clear.

My prometrium runs out on sunday eve.

I still haven't had numbers checked for lack of a care provider.

The Lord is working... just waiting.

I did get the restored balance cream in the mail so I will do the 1/4 tsp 3xs a day...starting monday.


Jewel, My height is about 5 ft. I am about 170lbs right now.

Does that dose sound 'good' to you, for my body mass?

[cindahomaker]

double posting this to cap off the discussion.

using the progesterone cream did not hinder the miscarriage working towards completion.

my fear that it would cause tissue retention etc...never was realized. I was spotting again after a
week of nothing so pushed for another test this week.
I am glad I used the progesterone while I was waiting to have another HcG.

I learned a lot! Thanks for all the help. :flowers:



I am in the frustrated/ angry phase right now too. I thought I was 'fine' but then I was harsh with Mike right before bed last night I feel terribly 'unprotected' I have a lot of built up angst about things he has slacked on that has given me undo pressures-stress and I want him to DO something about his tobacco chewing and I am tired of waiting...
Anyway I thought I was 'fine' emotionally after all I had the last few weeks to weight the emotion and
know that I was likely miscarrying but I finally got numbers yesterday I just called that gp I didn't want to deal with and said look" I am still bleeding after two weeks I need another HcG done so I know more of what is going on" -(I've always 'bled out' everything really fast and been in recovery by this time with the other miscarriages)
The numbers couldn't be more telling as the first test showed the Hcg down to 28!

I am however going to put my efforts into finding a midwife/ gyn care. And frankly not worrying about how it will inconvenience Mike - I spend way too much time doing that and it usually means that something suffers in a worse way than him getting less sleep or what have you. As a few months ago I had thoughts of wanting to work on my progesterone issues before another conception! but didn't get to fully do so because I didn't want to add to his burden.
I will be finely talking with Laura today. I 'd a voice mail from her yesterday but was out ALL day doing the test shopping and then spending several hours over to the neighbors while the new furnace was installed.

I am bleeding again a little more heavily now that I stopped the progesterone and am hoping all will go well.
I don't think the baby was more than 3 weeks gestation so I am not expecting a lot other than some real flow instead of all the on again off again spotting!
What have you done for the aching back that comes with all the bleeding? I am going to the Chiropractor next week but the pain is more from the hormones -I know.

Take Care

[cindahomaker]

I have thought a lot about giving my body a break to heal and working on my known health issues that could have contributed to miscarriages.
I am not sure I will take the progesterone or do vitex.

Since I am planning on waiting for pregnancy for several months I am leaning toward using the vitex. I will have the time to let it do it's work.

Would it make any sense to do a combination of the two? like vitex and small amounts of progesterone the bottle for instance talks about 1/8 tsp. 3 times a day.

I was feeling so much better on the progesterone and my skin looked better etc... it is hard to not plan to just take it for immediate relief! Where vitex will likely take a while to balance things and cause my body to produce it on its own.

I AM ALSO NOT SURE WHEN TO START THE VITEX SINCE MY CYCLES ARE ALL MESSED UP NOW. THERE IS STILL SOME BLEEDING GOING ON.

I AM INCLINED TO START THE VITEX ON MONDAY, LET MY CYCLE RETURN AND THEN DO THE BREAK DURING MENSTRUAL PERIOD.
Is that what vitex users do?
I have also thought about the chaste berry and progesterone in terms of "manipulating my hormones/ body" and I don't think that is really the case... they would be helping my body to relearn to regulate it's self. Isn't that true?

[o0o0i0o]

You should take Vitex everyday of your cycle for at least 3 months (or tell 14 weeks of pregnancy) to get the full benefit. The cream I don't use when on Vitex, but do use when I suspect a pregnancy (even when on Vitex) to give the extra boost. So even if you are taking a TTC break it would be good to stay on the Vitex.